Commons:Categories for discussion/2019/12/Category:Pavements (architecture)

Category:Pavements (architecture)

The category description for Category:Pavements (architecture) says "Pavements used in building interiors and outdoor rooms." Meanwhile en:Pavement (architecture) refers to " an outdoor floor or superficial surface covering." We also have Category:Pavements, ostensibly for outdoor pavers. Confusingly, Category:Pavers (flooring) is for both outdoor and indoor use. Can we find some clearer naming scheme? Themightyquill (talk) 12:04, 15 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note that w:Pavements redirects to the DAB but w:Category:Pavements is at the base name but should probably be moved. It seems sensible to disambiguate here to. Crouch, Swale (talk) 14:49, 15 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The current system is as follows:

Category:Pavement (architecture): Any kind of hard structured flooring used in buildings (whether indoor or outdoor rooms) but not roads.
Category:Pavements: Any kind of hard structure used in outdoor roads, walkways, etc, but not in buildings
Category:Pavers (flooring): Any use of flat pieces used to create a flat surface underfoot, whether in buildings or as roads.

The basic purposes of each category seems reasonable to me, but there are lots of problems:

All three should be peers, yet there's no obvious parent. I think Category:Paving is just for roads? Maybe Category:Paved surfaces?
Category:Pavements is ambiguously named, but I can't think of a clear alternative that includes paved roads, paths, etc. (Category:Thoroughfare pavement?)
Category:Pavers (flooring) suggests to me indoor flooring only, but it includes roads that use pavers. -- Themightyquill (talk) 09:27, 1 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding "Pavements" - this may be more complicated, as in the UK the term "pavement" is used for what they call "sidewalk" in the USA, and not generally for the hard surface of a road. Not sure about the history of this. Just stumbled over this difference again when categorizing a file. --Schlosser67 (talk) 08:48, 2 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Schlosser67: Good point. I had forgotten about that. All the more reason not to use an ambiguous name like Category:Pavements. -- Themightyquill (talk) 08:44, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Themightyquill: ~~Regarding the "pavements" thing, I'll implement the following category scheme:~~

~~Paved surfaces~~
- ~~Paved roads and streets — will cover what Pavements currently cover~~
  - ~~Paving~~
- ~~Pavements (architecture) — for paved surface in and around buildings~~
  - ~~Pavers (flooring)~~

--Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 16:07, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Sbb1413: I'm not sure that solves the need to disambiguate between pavement(s) as space filled with solid concrete and pavement as space filled with pavers. -- Themightyquill (talk) 09:35, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Themightyquill: I've replaced the above scheme with the following:

~~Paving — for the process of laying down road surfaces or pavers on a surface.~~
- ~~Paved surfaces Pavements — for all surfaces paved with road surfaces and pavers.~~
  - ~~Paved roads and streets — for roads and streets paved with pavers road surfaces.~~
    - ~~Road surfaces — for materials used for paving roads and streets.~~
  - ~~Pavements (architecture) — for paved surfaces in and around buildings, but not on roads and streets.~~
    - ~~Pavers (flooring) — for all materials used for paving in and around buildings.~~

~~Pavements will be a disambiguation page to disambiguate between Paved surfaces, Footpaths and Walkways.~~ Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 09:56, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Sbb1413: But "Paving" and "paved surfaces" do not just refer to spaces with pavers. It also refers to areas where concrete (etc.) has been poured. -- Themightyquill (talk) 10:04, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, I'm correcting the proposed description to include both pavers and road surfaces (concrete, asphalt etc.). Now I've included both. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 10:05, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I have also replaced Paved surfaces with Pavements to match with the subcats in Paved surfaces by material. The Pavements category will link to Footpaths and Walkways. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 10:14, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Due to further considerations, I've proposed a new category scheme:

Paving — for the process of laying down road surfaces or pavers on surface.
- Floor paving — for the process of laying down pavers on floors.
  - Pavers (flooring) — for paving stone, tile, brick or brick-like piece of concrete used for paving in and around buildings.
    - Paved floors — for paved surfaces in and around buildings, but not on roads and streets.
- Road paving — for the process of laying down road surfaces on roads and streets.
  - Road surfaces — for materials used for paving roads and streets.
    - Paved roads and streets — for roads and streets paved with road surfaces.
- Pavements — for materials used for paving.
  - Road surfaces — for materials used for paving roads and streets.
  - Pavers (flooring) — for paving stone, tile, brick or brick-like piece of concrete used for paving in and around buildings.
- Paved surfaces — for all surfaces paved with road surfaces or pavers.
  - Paved roads and streets — for roads and streets paved with road surfaces.
  - Paved floors — for paved surfaces in and around buildings, but not on roads and streets.

--Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 10:31, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Forgot to ping @Themightyquill: who had statrted the CFD. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 12:48, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

For me the terms are also confusing. I think the major part of the proposal of Sbb1413 looks good:

The first part of Paving, about the process: Agree
But I would like to have Pavements as the main category, including the process of Paving (as a child). And define it as "all kind of surfaces that have been paved" (not only "for materials used for paving"), indoor and outdoor.

@Themightyquill, Crouch, Swale, Estopedist1, Schlosser67, and Sbb1413: Please give your reaction, then I hope we can close this discussion soon (it dates from December 2019). JopkeB (talk) 08:56, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Sbb1413 and JopkeB: I'm a little confused. Is Paved floors both for paving stones/tiles/etc and for Category:Asphalt concrete around buildings? If so, why is it a subcategory of Category:Pavers (flooring)? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Themightyquill (talk • contribs) 14:45, 20 April 2024‎ (UTC)[reply]

Or perhaps "Pavements" should be a DAB but otherwise this seems fine. Crouch, Swale (talk) 11:07, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

New proposal

@JopkeB, Themightyquill, Crouch, Swale, Estopedist1, and Schlosser67: To avoid cluttering here, I have made a new proposal on pavements at User:Sbb1413/pavements. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs • uploads) 02:50, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Sbb1413, for reviving this discussion. First of all I agree that Category:Pavements should be the main category. Questions about other aspects:

What was the previous CFD on roads and streets that causes the need to change Category:Paved roads and streets?
What about streets, shouldn't a Category:Paved streets be created as well?
Category:Paving materials is in your scheme a subcategory of Category:Paving. Shouldn't it be a direct subcategory of Category:Pavements? Because: the materials will be a part of the pavements long after the paving process.

I agree with the rest of the redirects and renaming. JopkeB (talk) 14:53, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]